Links

Scour through the Standing on the Rock website and discover your legal power that truly holds up in court: https://www.standingontherock.com/ 

Timestamps

00:00:00 - How to level out the legal playing field when litigating for your liberty using Equity
00:00:39 - Why Standing on the Rock stands out as a true leader in Equity, and the most crucial criteria for discerning practical legal insight from misleading theories
00:02:06 - How Julian and Margaret mastered the mechanics of Equity and what sets it apart from the pitfalls of the patriot movement
00:09:30 - The year the government branded its own citizens as enemies and sparked a surge of sweeping state control
00:14:30 - Why the money this world pedestalizes actually constitutes promissory notes (and equate to nothing more than debt instruments)
00:25:04 - Why Equity was erected as a counterweight to legalized coercion
00:32:20 - The principles that keep you protected under Equity 
00:36:33 - How the courts recognize Equity as an eligible legal remedy
00:45:13 - Why the “sovereignty movement” gets crushed in the courtroom
00:49:21 - Understanding repentance and the spiritual side of litigation
00:58:00 - Why “dodging your debt” isn’t the same as borrowing from a bank (when the loan itself is issued as debt)
01:08:28 - Why Equity is the key to technocratic tyranny
01:13:24 - How to embark on the incredible legal insights offered by Standing on the Rock

Transcript

Hello everyone, and welcome. Today’s episode might just as well be called The True Law Report. I’m your host, Dr. Andrew Kaufman, and I’m continuing my series on equity law with two people I consider not just colleagues, but mentors—Julian and Margaret Swan.

What makes them unique isn’t just their depth of knowledge, but the fact that they live what they teach. They’ve applied this in their own lives, taken the risks themselves, and demonstrated real-world success. That’s something I deeply respect.

So welcome—great to have you both here.

Julian Swan:
Thanks, Andy. It’s great to be here.

Margaret Swan:
Yes, thank you—it’s a pleasure.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
Why don’t you share a bit about your background and how you came into this work?

Julian Swan:
Our journey really began during the pandemic period. I was working in engineering and ended up losing my job over vaccine mandates. That forced us into a position where we had to figure things out quickly.

We knew we needed a way to stand on our rights—but not through argument and conflict. That path clearly wasn’t working. So we began searching for a body of law rooted in something deeper—something aligned with truth, morality, and ultimately, God’s law.

That search led us to equity.

We spent about a year applying it in our own lives, resolving financial and legal issues we had gotten ourselves into. Once we saw the results firsthand, we began teaching it. It’s been about three years now, and it’s been an incredible journey.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
You said something important there—without arguing and fighting. That goes against what most people think about law. Can you expand on that?

Julian Swan:
Absolutely. Most people approach law as a battlefield—arguments, statutes, trying to prove someone wrong. But equity operates completely differently.

Instead of arguing, we ask questions. Very specific questions that go straight to the conscience and the moral heart of the issue.

When you argue, you create resistance. You trigger opposition. But when you ask the right questions, you shift the dynamic. You compel performance rather than provoke conflict.

Margaret Swan:
We call it the “art of inquiry.” The person asking the questions is actually directing the entire interaction.

And it’s non-combative. You’re not accusing anyone, you’re not escalating—you’re simply bringing clarity. And that changes everything.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
So instead of fighting the system, you’re working within it—but differently.

Julian Swan:
Exactly. Most legal strategies today rely on digging into statutes, case law, or contradictions in the system. But they ignore something fundamental: the contracts we’re all operating within.

Since the 1930s, we’ve been embedded in a system of financial and legal agreements—birth certificates, tax systems, licenses. Trying to argue your way out of that framework doesn’t work.

Equity takes a different approach. It accepts that the framework exists and resolves the matter within it—cleanly, without conflict.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
That leads into the concept of “surety.” Can you explain that in simple terms?

Julian Swan:
Surety means you’re liable for the obligation of another—similar to a co-signer.

The idea is that individuals act as sureties for their legal identity—the name attached to contracts. When that entity incurs obligations, you’re the one ultimately responsible.

But here’s the key: that role doesn’t just carry liability—it carries power.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
And this ties directly into how money and law function today.

Julian Swan:
Yes. Everything today runs on negotiable instruments—promises to pay.

Your signature represents performance. That’s what gives these instruments their force. Without the signature, nothing moves.

Once you understand that, you start to see documents differently. A summons, a complaint, a financial agreement—they’re all instruments that can be handled, not just reacted to.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
So even a court document is functioning as a financial instrument?

Julian Swan:
Exactly. Courts operate within a commercial framework. Cases generate bonds, which are processed through financial systems.

That’s why you see terms like “bond,” “discharge,” “settlement.” These aren’t just legal concepts—they’re financial.

Margaret Swan:
And this is where equity comes in. Equity sits above that system. Historically, it was created to provide remedies where strict law failed to produce fairness.

Instead of focusing on punishment or damages, equity focuses on performance—what action will actually resolve the issue.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
And one of the key differences is avoiding controversy.

Julian Swan:
Yes. Courts are designed to resolve disputes. If you come in arguing, you’ve already entered into their framework. You’ve given them authority over the outcome.

But when you remain in inquiry—when you ask questions instead of making claims—you avoid creating controversy. That changes your position entirely.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
And equity isn’t a separate court—it’s present in all courts.

Julian Swan:
Correct. Equity operates alongside statutory law. Historically, through things like the Judicature Acts, equity was merged into the court system—but it still prevails when law falls short.

When strict law fails to provide a fair remedy, equity steps in.

Margaret Swan:
And judges actually rely on equity more than people realize. It gives them broader discretion to reach a fair outcome.

But most people don’t know how to bring equity properly, so it ends up being used against them instead of for them.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
That explains why so many alternative legal movements struggle.

Julian Swan:
Exactly. Many of those movements identify real problems—contracts, identity structures, financial systems—but they rely on argument and resistance.

That keeps people trapped.

Equity doesn’t fight the system. It uses the system’s own mechanisms to resolve the matter cleanly.

Margaret Swan:
There’s also a deeper shift that happens. People often come in feeling victimized—like the system is against them.

But once they understand their role and their position, everything changes. They stop reacting emotionally and start acting with clarity.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
I’ve experienced that personally. In earlier cases, I felt dismissed—like I wasn’t even being taken seriously.

But when I approached things through equity, the entire dynamic changed. It was clear they were paying attention. The tone was completely different.

Julian Swan:
That’s the power of it. You’re no longer fighting within their system—you’re stepping into a position they have to acknowledge.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
Some people might say this is unethical—that you’re avoiding obligations. How do you respond to that?

Julian Swan:
Modern banking doesn’t function the way people think. Loans aren’t pulled from reserves—they’re created through accounting entries.

Your signature is what generates the value.

On top of that, the system extracts value in multiple ways—securitization, derivatives, insurance, tax write-offs. They’ve already been compensated many times over.

Equity doesn’t cheat the system—it balances it.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
So ultimately, the individual still holds the core power.

Julian Swan:
Yes. The signature represents performance. Without it, nothing happens.

Once you understand that, you can use it intentionally rather than unknowingly.

Margaret Swan:
It’s about stepping into responsibility. Not reacting, not feeling like a victim—but understanding your role and acting from that position.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
Tell us about your courses.

Julian Swan:
We run a structured equity course over 13 weeks, with live sessions, recordings, and ongoing access. There’s also a strong community component where people share experiences and strategies.

We also offer a trust system course for those who want to operate more privately and protect assets.

Margaret Swan:
And we focus heavily on application—Q&A, real scenarios, even mock court sessions. That’s where people build confidence.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
And I can vouch for that. The preparation makes a huge difference. It takes something intimidating and makes it manageable.

Julian Swan:
That’s the goal—to help people stand on their own.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
It really comes down to this: be your own authority.

Whether it’s your health, your legal standing, or your financial life—the more you understand, the less dependent you are on external systems.

And that shift has the potential to change everything.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:
Thanks for joining us, and I’ll see you next time on The True Health Report.